How to get unbanned from scratch.mit.edu?

Molybdenum · 2012-11-25 12:43:06

^^^
So I got banned: "You have been blocked for attacking other Scratchers by including links to their work from a negative forum post - after a previous warning."
And I sent this:

zippynk advised me to send this, so here goes...

Yippee. I'm banned again. And again, for no reason.
This time, it appears to be a problem with credit. I'm going to take this step by step.
What happened:
1. FD asks for some help: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=naruto&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fscratch.mit.edu%2Fforums%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fpid%3D1437822&ei=KRObULjqCub30gGLxoGgCQ&usg=AFQjCNH-q5TsASc6xOcFAzGMI4ZZ6u7jHQ
(see note 1)
2. I respond: http://scratch.mit.edu/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=1436682#p1436682 with some scratchblocks.
3. Everything's good, right?
4. FD uses it here: http://scratch.mit.edu/projects/Firedrake969/2884095
5. So.. My fix was relatively major (see http://scratch.mit.edu/projects/ROSMan/2834299 for why), right?
6. Somewhere here: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=i%20want%20to%20quit%20scratch%20since%20everyone%20including%20the%20mods%20are%20mean%20to%20me&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CEwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fscratch.mit.edu%2Fforums%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fpid%3D1439027&ei=AxqbUOXeM4nA0QHQxIH4BA&usg=AFQjCNFBk5p--4KOLw-UGk1vKwu92_m-mw&cad=rja
it is said that credit should be given to anyone who helps out. (note 1 again)
7. Per CG: "Instead of just criticizing a project or forum post, say what you like about it and offer suggestions on how to make it better." Although this connection may be a little far-fetched, I reminded FD about credit in a humorous, non-serious manner ("Did hurricane sandy blow away the credits? ")
8. FD repeatedly deleted my reply (Short version: Me: looks similar, is it the same as my fix? FD: Yes. Me: [see 7] ) to him.
9. I put it back at first, assuming that it was an accident. (they happen sometimes).
10. Later, FD deleted the entire comment tree. I (a bit sarcastically, didn't mean that) asked him why he did. Deleted.
11. Comments and thread locked, me banned.
That's what happened. Now, the confusion/problems:
1. First thing I saw: "After a previous warning" The other [haarqrq] ban had almost nothing to do with this.
EDIT: If you mean the playzooki thing, that also had mostly nothing to do with this. Just something I thought of today.
2. [main point] You know how people go "Question about X", and in their post, they go "[description], and in case you're wondering, the [problem] is here: link"? It is easier for people to answer questions when given context. (note 2 for an interesting example) Most people, including FD himself (note 1), do so, even if it has a negative part.
2.1. Therefore, is there a reason I can't/shouldn't?

As explained in my previous ban-message, scratch is about learning, which bans hinder.
You try to sidestep this by referring to the "previous" warning.
However, I read in a book about AI (you can learn lots of things from books!) that examples [and imitation] are one way of learning (and in fact, the way children use, so it must be good!).
Per 2 and 2.1, people learn that on scratch, context is useful. Therefore, what many people would try: Add context to get a question answered quicker.

Most of us assume that if A is discouraged [referring to people negatively?], B is encouraged [asking questions], and C [this] has a slight bit of A in it but a majority of B, then C is ok.
But its different on scratch, like always. It seems that even if C has 1/G64 of A, people don't like C.
So people need to learn that..?
And to learn, one needs to be given gentle pushes?
...Which bans don't give?

Any replies should be commented on http://scratch.mit.edu/projects/Molybdenum/2632804 using an encoding of /moly-ban-2/ so I actually get them.

Note 1: For some reason, the forum bans me even when I'm not logged in, so I can't get proper links sometimes. I don't think its IP though. (diff comp = unbanned) Maybe cache problems?
Note 2: I read on wikipedia that without context, unionized is pronounced un-ionized by chemists, and union-ized by others.
EDIT: If you ignore me, like you do to most of my other messages, please explain why. No-one likes it when they write a long message, send it, and are ignored. Key is above.
EDIT2: I reread this over 10 times, that's how paranoid I am because of this ban. So please don't ignore this.

Guess what? I got ignored.

After a few more messages, "You have been blocked for attacking other Scratchers by including links to their work from a negative forum post - after a previous warning. Please use a valid e-mail address to contact the Scratch Team about the situation; if you don;t have a valid e-mail address, you can have a parent contact us instead on your behalf."

COPPA anyone?

@jvvg @your comment That seems right if it were not for the fact that when I tried to sign up for gmail, it didn't let me even with consent.

Now, as I told the mods (who kinda spammed) in a comment:
Paddle: "Who reads the email that is associated with your account?"
Moly: "@1: My mom, and as I said, she wants be to get banned."
Of course, she also does want me unbanned, but we don't want to get of our way just to get unbanned from a ban that was kinda useless.
So how would I get an email?..

Then things started getting downhill from there, with the ST promoting (or rather demoting the demotions) games with a bad community who curse at you every other post. I don't want to get into that.

A few days later, I apologized. Guess what happened.
SPOILER: Ignored.

Now, 50 Bits is being trolled, and I can't do anything about it.

How can I get unbanned? I don't want to have my hard work on my projects go to waste, and I'm not sure whether to make scratch projects, because I might not be unbanned to upload them.

Don't tell me to get an email; 3 reasons. 1; I've internetted so long without one and am used to it. 2; We don't want to get an email to fix a simple issue. 3; Gmail and others don't let me.

So please help! Lots of new projects that I can't upload!

jvvg · 2012-11-25 13:13:45

Are you sure you were unable to get a Gmail? I got one when I was 11 years old (after COPPA was passed) and my parents didn't need to consent in any way, and I did enter my age. I don't think much has changed since then.
The ST also doesn't ignore emails, except for the about .1% of them that get lost by accident, or ones that appear rude. From what I read there, telling the ST they were sidestepping isn't a great way to get unbanned.

So, you should just try sending another email, saying that you are know what you did, you are sorry for it and that you have read and understand the community guidelines. (using your mom's email, if necessary)

Molybdenum · 2012-11-25 13:16:05

jvvg wrote:

Are you sure you were unable to get a Gmail? Yep. I got one when I was 11 years old (after COPPA was passed) and my parents didn't need to consent in any way, and I did enter my age. same, but it didn't work. I don't think much has changed since then.
The ST also doesn't ignore emails, except for the about .1% of them that get lost by accident, or ones that appear rude. From what I read there, telling the ST they were sidestepping wasn't thinking when I wrote that isn't a great way to get unbanned.
So, you should just try sending another email, saying that you are know what you did, you are sorry for it and that you have read and understand the community guidelines already did. (using your mom's email, if necessary can't?)

red is mine.

jvvg · 2012-11-25 13:19:28

If you can't get a Gmail, you should try another provider instead (e.g. live.com, ymail.com, etc.). That's about the best solution I can offer right now.

Molybdenum · 2012-11-25 13:34:59

jvvg wrote:

If you can't get a Gmail, you should try another provider instead (e.g. live.com, ymail.com, etc.). That's about the best solution I can offer right now.

I'm pretty sure they will still ignore me.

jvvg · 2012-11-25 13:39:48

Molybdenum wrote:

jvvg wrote:
If you can't get a Gmail, you should try another provider instead (e.g. live.com, ymail.com, etc.). That's about the best solution I can offer right now.
I'm pretty sure they will still ignore me.

If you're polite and make it clear that you are sorry for what you did, you understand the community guidelines, and won't do it again, they won't ignore you.

Molybdenum · 2012-11-25 18:20:06

jvvg wrote:

Molybdenum wrote:
jvvg wrote:
If you can't get a Gmail, you should try another provider instead (e.g. live.com, ymail.com, etc.). That's about the best solution I can offer right now.
I'm pretty sure they will still ignore me.
If you're polite and make it clear that you are sorry for what you did, you understand the community guidelines, and won't do it again, they won't ignore you.

Molybdenum wrote:

...IMPORTANT STUFF WAS HERE...
A few days later, I apologized. Guess what happened.
SPOILER: Ignored.
...IMPORTANT STUFF WAS HERE...

jvvg · 2012-11-25 18:44:38

Did you check the spam folder?

Molybdenum · 2012-11-25 18:50:09

jvvg wrote:

Did you check the spam folder?

What spam folder? I don't have an email.. . . . . . . . . . . ..

jvvg · 2012-11-25 19:01:01

Molybdenum wrote:

jvvg wrote:
Did you check the spam folder?
What spam folder? I don't have an email.. . . . . . . . . . . ..

I thought you said you emailed them with your mom's email and they ignored you.

Molybdenum · 2012-11-25 19:16:03

jvvg wrote:

Molybdenum wrote:
jvvg wrote:
Did you check the spam folder?
What spam folder? I don't have an email.. . . . . . . . . . . ..
I thought you said you emailed them with your mom's email and they ignored you.

I emailed them by putting the [email protected] into the email box when it said "Not working? [email protected]" (which I assumed was refering to the email part).

jvvg · 2012-11-25 19:56:14

Molybdenum wrote:

jvvg wrote:
Molybdenum wrote:
What spam folder? I don't have an email.. . . . . . . . . . . ..
I thought you said you emailed them with your mom's email and they ignored you.
I emailed them by putting the [email protected] into the email box when it said "Not working? [email protected]" (which I assumed was refering to the email part).

Oh, I see. Hmm, that's a problem, I'm not exactly sure what to do either.

Molybdenum · 2012-11-25 20:12:28

jvvg wrote:

I'm not exactly sure what to do either.

That's what zippynk said I wish someone (besides be) would ask the ST about it, but zippy and I think that they might get mad (nf gurl hfhnyyl qb...) and ban the asker.

jvvg · 2012-11-25 20:14:33

Molybdenum wrote:

jvvg wrote:
I'm not exactly sure what to do either.
That's what zippynk said I wish someone (besides be) would ask the ST about it, but zippy and I think that they might get mad (nf gurl hfhnyyl qb...) and ban the asker.

The ST prefers it if you ask them yourself. In fact, I think that's the only way to get unbanned (I think).

SJRCS_011 · 2012-11-25 20:14:40

jvvg wrote:

Molybdenum wrote:
jvvg wrote:
I thought you said you emailed them with your mom's email and they ignored you.
I emailed them by putting the [email protected] into the email box when it said "Not working? [email protected]" (which I assumed was refering to the email part).
Oh, I see. Hmm, that's a problem, I'm not exactly sure what to do either.

You're supposed to put your (mother's) email into the email box when you send it
the email you put in there is the one they will respond to.
I also believe they wont respond to any emails sent directly from email because the contact us form sends certain data about your computer so they can identify who you are.

Molybdenum · 2012-11-25 20:21:52

jvvg wrote:

Molybdenum wrote:
jvvg wrote:
I'm not exactly sure what to do either.
That's what zippynk said I wish someone (besides be) would ask the ST about it, but zippy and I think that they might get mad (nf gurl hfhnyyl qb...) and ban the asker.
The ST prefers it if you ask them yourself. In fact, I think that's the only way to get unbanned (I think).

They... Kinda ignore me. They didn't my first ban though, but that was short. [important]Also, they send *short* (naablvat) messages through the ban message, and I wonder why they can't communicate like that...[/important]

SJRCS_011 wrote:

I also believe they wont respond to any emails sent directly from email because the contact us form sends certain data about your computer so they can identify who you are.

By that you mean sent off of the CU (carbon uranium or copper!) form, right?

If yes: Makes sense. Of course, I sometimes send through the contact us in the ban place.

jvvg · 2012-11-25 20:27:48

Molybdenum wrote:

jvvg wrote:
Molybdenum wrote:
That's what zippynk said I wish someone (besides be) would ask the ST about it, but zippy and I think that they might get mad (nf gurl hfhnyyl qb...) and ban the asker.
The ST prefers it if you ask them yourself. In fact, I think that's the only way to get unbanned (I think).
They... Kinda ignore me. They didn't my first ban though, but that was short. [important]Also, they send *short* (naablvat) messages through the ban message, and I wonder why they can't communicate like that...[/important]

The reason they send short messages is that they usually have to pick from a list, because between developing 2.0 and dealing with all the other stuff going on at the website, they can't spare time to type out something very detailed. Usually, the user knows what they are referring to.

Molybdenum wrote:

SJRCS_011 wrote:
I also believe they wont respond to any emails sent directly from email because the contact us form sends certain data about your computer so they can identify who you are.
By that you mean sent off of the CU (carbon uranium or copper!) form, right?
If yes: Makes sense. Of course, I sometimes send through the contact us in the ban place.

When you say "sometimes", does that mean that you sent it several times? It's also hard for them to respond if you don't have an email.
But yeah, you do need to use the ban page contact form so that they know you are who you say you are. When using the contact form, it tells them your username, so they can verify you're not some other person.

Molybdenum · 2012-11-25 20:29:48

jvvg wrote:

Molybdenum wrote:
jvvg wrote:
The ST prefers it if you ask them yourself. In fact, I think that's the only way to get unbanned (I think).
They... Kinda ignore me. They didn't my first ban though, but that was short. [important]Also, they send *short* (naablvat) messages through the ban message, and I wonder why they can't communicate like that...[/important]
The reason they send short messages is that they usually have to pick from a list, because between developing 2.0 and dealing with all the other stuff going on at the website, they can't spare time to type out something very detailed. Usually, the user knows what they are referring to.

I'm pretty sure my "short messages" were typed out; there was a typo... Also, if they can spare time to talk through email, why not through the ban message?

Last edited by Molybdenum (2012-11-25 20:32:42)

jvvg · 2012-11-25 20:32:24

Molybdenum wrote:

jvvg wrote:
Molybdenum wrote:
They... Kinda ignore me. They didn't my first ban though, but that was short. [important]Also, they send *short* (naablvat) messages through the ban message, and I wonder why they can't communicate like that...[/important]
The reason they send short messages is that they usually have to pick from a list, because between developing 2.0 and dealing with all the other stuff going on at the website, they can't spare time to type out something very detailed. Usually, the user knows what they are referring to.
I'm pretty sure my "short messages" were typed out; there was a typo... Also, if they can spare time to talk through email, why not the ban message?

Oh. Another reason could be to see if the user understands what they did wrong. I don't know all of the policies they follow, I just know the technical aspects (I have seen the admin panel before).

jvvg · 2012-11-25 20:36:08

Another thing you might find interesting...
Here, LS and I said that if we want a policy adopted on Scratch, we should use it here.
Relating to your situation, these are the policies we use (and think the ST should use):
-When a user does something bad, we usually ban them for about 2 weeks-2 months, but if they contact us saying they are sorry, we make it only a few days (unless they did something really bad)
-We are relatively specific in ban messages and replying to emails (we also use a smaller font size on the ban page, so we can put in more text )

And one that I really think they should adopt that doesn't apply:
-When a user flags something and we agree with it, we send the flagger a notification saying that appropriate action has been taken

Molybdenum · 2012-11-25 20:39:55

jvvg wrote:

Molybdenum wrote:
jvvg wrote:
The reason they send short messages is that they usually have to pick from a list, because between developing 2.0 and dealing with all the other stuff going on at the website, they can't spare time to type out something very detailed. Usually, the user knows what they are referring to.
I'm pretty sure my "short messages" were typed out; there was a typo... Also, if they can spare time to talk through email, why not the ban message?
Oh. Another reason could be to see if the user understands what they did wrong. I don't know all of the policies they follow, I just know the technical aspects (I have seen the admin panel before).

Of course you would have seen the admin panel :P

And I do (kinda) understand.... People consider examples from a negative forum post to be bad, rira gubhtu crbcyr qb vg nyy gur gvzr.

Also, although this may be a *little* offtopic, but why do you think the ST makes us register our websites, while letting people link freely to other sites which have lots of bad things (V'z znvayl pbaprearq nobhg RR (V qba'g jnag gb tvir gur shyy anzr). Evtug orsber V dhvg, V erpvrirq n CZ shyy bs "****"f {that was not a curse!}. V gbyq QvtvGrpuf gb pbzzrag vg ba na RR eryngrq cebwrpg (gung jnf ba gur SC), ohg gur pbzzrag jnf qryrgrq...)

jvvg wrote:

Another thing you might find interesting...
Here, LS and I said that if we want a policy adopted on Scratch, we should use it here.
Relating to your situation, these are the policies we use (and think the ST should use):
-When a user does something bad, we usually ban them for about 2 weeks-2 months, but if they contact us saying they are sorry, we make it only a few days (unless they did something really bad)
-We are relatively specific in ban messages and replying to emails (we also use a smaller font size on the ban page, so we can put in more text :P)
And one that I really think they should adopt that doesn't apply:
-When a user flags something and we agree with it, we send the flagger a notification saying that appropriate action has been taken

Hmm.. Those seem really good. Of course, to some people, 3 may not be needed, but its always good when you get a comfirmation.

jvvg · 2012-11-25 20:43:27

Molybdenum wrote:

jvvg wrote:
Molybdenum wrote:
I'm pretty sure my "short messages" were typed out; there was a typo... Also, if they can spare time to talk through email, why not the ban message?
Oh. Another reason could be to see if the user understands what they did wrong. I don't know all of the policies they follow, I just know the technical aspects (I have seen the admin panel before).
Of course you would have seen the admin panel
And I do (kinda) understand.... People consider examples from a negative forum post to be bad, rira gubhtu crbcyr qb vg nyy gur gvzr.

Also, although this may be a *little* offtopic, but why do you think the ST makes us register our websites, while letting people link freely to other sites which have lots of bad things (V'z znvayl pbaprearq nobhg RR (V qba'g jnag gb tvir gur shyy anzr). Evtug orsber V dhvg, V erpvrirq n CZ shyy bs "****"f {that was not a curse!}. V gbyq QvtvGrpuf gb pbzzrag vg ba na RR eryngrq cebwrpg (gung jnf ba gur SC), ohg gur pbzzrag jnf qryrgrq...)

1. I have ScratchR set up on my laptop.
2. Not much to say
3. When linking to your own site, you are responsible for making it appropriate, and they just want to make that clear and make sure the owner knows it needs to be kept appropriate. When linking to other sites, I guess they just hope people don't click links to other pages.

Molybdenum · 2012-11-25 20:48:03

jvvg wrote:

Molybdenum wrote:
jvvg wrote:
Oh. Another reason could be to see if the user understands what they did wrong. I don't know all of the policies they follow, I just know the technical aspects (I have seen the admin panel before).
Of course you would have seen the admin panel
And I do (kinda) understand.... People consider examples from a negative forum post to be bad, rira gubhtu crbcyr qb vg nyy gur gvzr.

Also, although this may be a *little* offtopic, but why do you think the ST makes us register our websites, while letting people link freely to other sites which have lots of bad things (V'z znvayl pbaprearq nobhg RR (V qba'g jnag gb tvir gur shyy anzr). Evtug orsber V dhvg, V erpvrirq n CZ shyy bs "****"f {that was not a curse!}. V gbyq QvtvGrpuf gb pbzzrag vg ba na RR eryngrq cebwrpg (gung jnf ba gur SC), ohg gur pbzzrag jnf qryrgrq...)
1. I have ScratchR set up on my laptop.
2. Not much to say
3. When linking to your own site, you are responsible for making it appropriate, and they just want to make that clear and make sure the owner knows it needs to be kept appropriate. When linking to other sites, I guess they just hope people don't click links to other pages.

1. Yeah
2. Same
3. That's like hoping 4x(1-x) --> x never goes below .001. Humans are naturally curious, at least that's what I always say Of course... xkcd needs only a min. of 1 click (avg. is prob. somewhere around 13) to get to something bad. And Lightnin linked to it...

Back on topic. How can I get unbanned?

Last edited by Molybdenum (2012-11-25 20:48:18)

jvvg · 2012-11-25 20:50:45

Molybdenum wrote:

Back on topic. How can I get unbanned?

Like I said above, the only good solution is to get an email and then contact the ST on the ban page. If you can't get an email... that's very unfortunate. I'm still pretty sure that most email services will let you get an email, regardless of your age.

Molybdenum · 2012-11-25 20:55:35

jvvg wrote:

Molybdenum wrote:
Back on topic. How can I get unbanned?
Like I said above, the only good solution is to get an email and then contact the ST on the ban page. If you can't get an email... that's very unfortunate. I'm still pretty sure that most email services will let you get an email, regardless of your age.

I jsut don't want to waste the effort to try again and see it fail. Also, "1; I've internetted so long without one and am used to it. 2; We don't want to get an email to fix a simple issue. 3; Gmail and others don't let me."

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#1 2012-11-25 12:43:06

How to get unbanned from scratch.mit.edu?

#2 2012-11-25 13:13:45

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#3 2012-11-25 13:16:05

Re: How to get unbanned from scratch.mit.edu?

#4 2012-11-25 13:19:28

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#5 2012-11-25 13:34:59

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#6 2012-11-25 13:39:48

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#7 2012-11-25 18:20:06

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#8 2012-11-25 18:44:38

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#9 2012-11-25 18:50:09

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#10 2012-11-25 19:01:01

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#11 2012-11-25 19:16:03

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#12 2012-11-25 19:56:14

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#13 2012-11-25 20:12:28

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#14 2012-11-25 20:14:33

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#15 2012-11-25 20:14:40

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#16 2012-11-25 20:21:52

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#17 2012-11-25 20:27:48

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#18 2012-11-25 20:29:48

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#19 2012-11-25 20:32:24

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#20 2012-11-25 20:36:08

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#21 2012-11-25 20:39:55

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#22 2012-11-25 20:43:27

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#23 2012-11-25 20:48:03

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#24 2012-11-25 20:50:45

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#25 2012-11-25 20:55:35

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